Elderly people who have been engaged in mechanical processing for 14 years came to answer a wave. The quality control of Dalian Machine Tool Plant and Shenyang Machine Tool Plant is simply a shame to China’s manufacturing industry. In 2007, the company bought six GD160 gantry-type CNC drilling machines from Shenyang Machine Tool Factory for more than a year after its establishment in 2007. Anyone who has been engaged in machining knows how simple the structure of this machine tool is. However, even such a simple structure can’t be done well. The spindle of a hole with a diameter of more than 20 starts to jump, resulting in hard alloy drills and U drills with internal cooling that are almost never used from the time of purchase to scrapping, because of the damage rate of the drill. Sorry, only high-speed steel drill bits can be used. The manual says that the fastest speed is 20000MM per minute, but when the parameters are given to 15000, the motor load reaches 100%, and the manufacturer has repaired it three times in more than a year. At that time, the overall poor quality control of China’s machinery industry can be forgiven. In 15 years, the company bought two more. This time the problem of spindle beating was solved, and the problem of the false standard of walking speed was still not solved. Designed with a speed of 20000MM per minute, the load will soar to 100% when the parameters are given to 15000MM. The continuity screw is damaged, and the manufacturer’s engineers can’t solve it. Now our company still buys domestic machine tools. The large-scale automatic laser cutting machine is made in Wenzhou, the large-scale five-axis machining center is made in Ningbo, and the ordinary gantry machining center and Lijia are made in Suzhou. The name is not to mention the province. Said I advertise, the quality and processing precision are by no means inferior to Japan and South Korea, but the price is much cheaper. European machine tools have not been used badly. The rapid development of China’s machine tool industry in recent years is undoubtedly, but in the process of development, Shenyang Machine Tool Plant and Dalian Machine Tool Plant have eliminated the unintended corpse-bit vegetarian garbage.

zhiwo

By zhiwo

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helpmekim
6 months ago

Regarding management issues, Dalian Machine Tool spent huge sums of money to ask the Germans to build a machine tool assembly line that they would not dare to start. They wanted to make the machine tools like automobile production, but the quality plummeted. Later, they built a CNC system of their own, even if it was bad, the after-sales service was still very poor. What’s more weird is that this system has to be purchased from another company. At least these are still working on machine tools. After the stock financial market was booming, they actually took all the current assets to lend. Each workshop had a task. They did earn some money at the beginning. As a result, the managers at all levels were lending money. No one was in charge of the production. The quality of the products was only It can be described as horrible. The machine shell was painted without rust removal. As a result, the machine shell was completely rusted within two years after the machine was sold. No one wanted the product, and as a result, the stock market fell sharply. As a result, the money released would not come back, and the liquidity would be exhausted, and it would go bankrupt. Shenyang machine tools are similar. The things that are processed together are not too demanding, so you can pass them. Now the product requirements are getting higher and higher, and the machine tools cannot meet the requirements, so no one wants them.

heloword
6 months ago

It should not be a matter of money. The government will definitely support it when it should support it. The money paid for technological improvements will not be deducted. Enterprises applying for government support or bank loans will certainly not apply less. It’s not a human problem either. Liaoning’s colleges and universities have a very high level of education, with many old professors and skilled workers. It only takes time for machinery, which is easier than chip breakthrough. The Japanese just made the norms, accumulating the advantages generated by each small norm, and finally turned into a huge advantage. If the engineers in the Shenyang plant have the opportunity, they will certainly do no worse than the Japanese engineers. Finally, it can only be a matter of management.

helpyme
6 months ago

Coincidentally, our company bought a Shenyang machine tool a few years ago. Let me talk about my experience of using it. 1. The price is cheap. Compared with the machine tools of the old industrial powers Germany, Japan, and even Taiwan, the price of the sinking machine is much cheaper, especially in Germany, the price of a German machine tool on top of all the machine tools in our workshop, you dare to believe, No loss is an old machinery powerhouse, with batches of batches and batches 2. Easy to buy, you can buy it at any time. The German goods were so expensive that the company could not afford it. Later, after contacting a US company that wanted to buy a Japanese second-hand machine tool, the US Department of Commerce stepped in and directly rejected the transaction, and the sale of ShenTM strategic materials was banned in China. 3. Convenient after-sales service. After all, the after-sales service is in China. It is convenient to call for minor problems or to come by plane for major problems. Although there is a charge, it is cheaper than a German asking for a price of tens of thousands of euros. It’s okay if I say that, and it’s still the light of the Republic of Shenyang Machine Tool, and it’s famous! Noodles are hard! After buying and using it for a while, the problems came out in piles, all of which can be used, but it is uncomfortable to use, or easy to solve, but I think it should not happen. Describe it as if you were tickling through a t-shirt. You can scratch it. It took about a year and a half to start using it. Some workers reported that the cutting fluid is all guide oil, and it is not okay to replace the cutting fluid. 5L of guide oil is one month. Two barrels can be used. The installed oil-water separator has a low power, and I feel that the machine has its own thoughts before I spit a lot of oil after working hard for an hour. I change the tool holder often. I don’t want to change it anymore, and it’s stuck. If you arrive, you can solve it. Climb to the top of the machine and use an adjustable wrench to screw it. Once it can handle the creaking and creaking of the guide rail for half a month, call the after-sales service, and the after-sales service says that’s it. Oil is good. Brother, the machine tool, the electricity is not oil, we have filled him with 10L of rail oil a month, Mobil’s rail oil is so expensive, I can’t use it soon! Speaking of after-sales, alas. . . After-sales service is really huge! I just talked about the abnormal sound of the guide rail. I called the after-sales service to ask how to solve it. At that time, the operator said directly: I don’t know. You can call our engineer. I called the engineer and said: This is not in my control, I am only responsible for xxx, you call our x manager, I call the manager, and the manager said that he would check the situation before replying to me, and then it was cold I have two days. . . . Later, somehow, there was an after-sales service. No, it should be said that there was an uncle. As soon as the uncle came, he criticized us, saying that the equipment is most afraid of lack of fuel. Why don’t you give the guide rails? . . When you sold it, you said a barrel of oil for half a year! Now we have added two barrels a month! What do you want! Do you want to soak the machine in an oil jar? The uncle looked at us twice and saw that because of the large number of people, we reluctantly cleaned the oil road and left, and left a sentence: That’s it, if it works, it will do. If it doesn’t work, let’s add more oil. I will definitely buy new equipment in the future! ! ! Also bought Shenyang machine tools! Hahahahaha, you didn’t expect me to complain for so long. After all, it’s cheap. The big machine is so big and only a few hundred thousand small. Our company has almost no accuracy requirements (0.05 accuracy is fine). I don’t worry about after-sales service. , We found a company that specializes in repairing and maintaining equipment. It’s tens of kilometers away from our company. The service attitude is absolutely good. They are on call. As soon as they arrive, they call this brother, call that brother, don’t Too much affection with us, hahahaha! Later, it was rumored that Shenyang Machine Tool had no after-sales department, and they were all outsourced. I don’t know if it is true.

sina156
6 months ago

I am in the machining industry, and I have used all kinds of ordinary CNC machine tools. The quality of domestically produced goods is hard to say. Numerical control machine tools that do not require too high precision can still be used, but Shenyang’s is a pitfall. Not to mention Dalian, the Dalian CNC lathes bought in 10 years are not as accurate as the Dalian general cars bought in 90 years. It’s weird if it doesn’t fall.

yahoo898
6 months ago

Buying a car may also be fooled, because unless you get off the track, like zero-hundred acceleration and braking performance, most people can’t easily realize the difference between various cars without a test, and they all drive the same. Buying a machine tool is different. Whose machine tool has high precision means high quality, and good quality means good quality. If you use machine tools with insufficient precision or poor quality to process products, you will either be thrown on your face by Party A, or you will be compensated for late delivery of liquidated damages.

leexin
6 months ago

Mazak machine tools have high precision, high speed, extremely high stability, and extremely low failure rate. What are the characteristics of such machine tools that are naturally sought-after Dalian machine tools? What can a machine tool that has no guarantee of quality and numerical control system and no features compete with? China’s machine tools used to have a glorious history, but it’s declining too quickly. Persistence is too important. Even after the neon has experienced the drunkenness of the 1980s and the “lost twenty years” that began in the 1990s, it has faced the company for many years. Loss or even bankruptcy at any time. Since malicious incidents such as black companies and data fraud are frequent, Neon has still achieved “corporate transformation”. After disasters such as the bursting of the drunken economic bubble, Neon has entered the upper reaches of the industrial chain and firmly grasped cutting-edge technology. China’s machine tool companies are rising fast and declining. What is lacking is the “persistence” and “craftsmanship spirit” of Japanese companies. This is the key to the traditional industrial power. The old Swiss watchmaker is still fiddling with precision. The NHK documentary on mechanical watches made me very moving (as a young man, I have no confidence that I can do such a delicate work, but the old Swiss man actually plays with mechanical watches as entertainment in his spare time. The craftsmanship can really bring People’s infinite possibilities) (Hone the technology for making money, and hone the technology for the interest (craftsmanship spirit). In key places, absolutely the opposite “decision” will be made)

greatword
6 months ago

It has nothing to do with management or even with people. R&D investment and profit output are out of proportion, so nothing works. After all, the machine tool industry is very important, but the market is too small (the level of billions of knives in the world), the threshold is high, the level of my country is poor and the accumulation is shallow, and the market is not enough (not even in domestic manufacturing). The machine tools in our country are actually similar to the passenger cars in our country. Many people buy them at cheaper prices, but the profits are not enough; if you want to continue research and development, the market capacity and scale are large enough to accommodate other high-end players. If this is not the case, then you will have to smash money inside until you can cross the threshold-and then smash the jobs of the thousands of people abroad. If the annual sales volume of passenger cars in our country is only tens of thousands of this level, then companies such as Great Wall Geely can only do low-end cars for a lifetime. It is necessary to develop a high-end car model with tens of millions of supporting parts and systems. If only 3,000 more can be sold, then the underwear will have to be lost. Of course, the various subdivisions of high-end manufacturing do not need to be in the hands of China, but the machine tool is fundamental and important, and it is worth the investment of the state. The investment is not to give money or financing, but to really pay attention to the industry from the national policy to the implementation of the entire level.

loveyou
6 months ago

The first answer of the former Shenyang machine tool technician The current situation of Shenyang machine tool is directly related to the emphasis on marketing, technology and sharing mode (smart factory). I can’t think of what Shenyang machine tool has the ability to play the sharing mode. According to the assumption, the smart factory where Shenyang machine tools produce equipment and personnel, the local government produces land, and processing companies place orders is a win-win-win model. But after all, it’s not those Internet companies that play shared bicycles. The initial capital investment is huge, and Shenyang machine tools themselves are not working well. Each smart factory places dozens or hundreds of orders for the workshop without paying a penny. This is a direct result. The company is dead. In the end, the company cannot pay the supplier’s money and employees’ wages (the entire company is in arrears with a full year of social security and several months of wages). Other manufacturers have to pay for the machine tools first, and then use the money to pay the supplier. Buying parts, so the delivery time is often delayed again and again. Then there is more emphasis on marketing and less technology. In addition to leaders, those who are capable have become sales or account managers. The status of technicians is very low. Salaries will rise if they don’t fall for ten thousand years. Technicians with a salary of 4,000 for ten years are mostly present, but sales are not. The subsidy is almost twice the salary of the technical staff. The development of the entire group’s new machine tool platform and the benign training of technicians have been basically lost. In recent years, school recruitment only recruits sales and not technology. In this context, quality can be imagined. Apart from these two points, the vicious internal competition between branches and common problems of some state-owned enterprises can only be regarded as worse.

strongman
6 months ago

Say so much… Isn’t it because you can’t make money? The above demands to increase the scale? How to make it bigger? Like Mazakhhas, an 850 sells 50W? Customers can’t afford it, dear! There is no way for a machine of 850, two or three hundred thousand. It supports a down payment of tens of thousands of yuan in installments, and the machine can be shipped away, and subsequent payments are ignored. This is a problem of management strategy. It is indeed a lot of losses on this, and finally the book looks good. But the actual loss is a lot. In the current market, the quality of Shenji’s machining center is still competitive. It is the same as the Taiwan group. No one is against the domestic first echelon, right? Shenyang i5, which is similar to Siemens, is not a big problem to use. The feedback from the operation of the machine is half that it is easy to use and half that is not easy to use precision. It looks like one or two lines. The price of the absurd grade is indeed not stable. Now it is 850. Fanuc should be around 23. This year it may have risen a little, but it’s not high. The Taiwan group is almost the same, but there are indeed more minor problems, such as water leakage. Hahahaha. How to compare with Mazak is also to compare with the joint venture machine. For example, Taiqun Zhongjie can do it in the mid-range. The grade is like this in Taiwan and South Korea. It can be compared with Doosan Youjia Fuyu. Even higher

stockin
6 months ago

Although the Mazak machine tool is the representative of the lowest-level general-purpose machine tool in Japan, its technology leaves a gap with Takamatsu and Nakamura in terms of CNC lathes; in terms of machining centers, it only has more stand-alone sales, which is comparable to Enshu and Toyota, which focus on production lines. The gap between machine and machine is obvious; in terms of CNC gantry, it is incomparable with Japan’s Okuma and Toshiba; in terms of horizontal machining center, it is more than 3 grades behind the highest-level Mitsui Seiki horizontal machining center. In terms of five-axis machining center, it does not matter In Japan, the accuracy and performance stability of Mazak’s machine tools cover 60-70% of the demand in the field where the machine tool is located. It is the most well-known supplier in the world for the widest medium-precision demand. Japanese machine tool suppliers have long ranked first in mid-year shipments; back to Dalian machine tools, their machine tool positioning is also in the direction of general machine tools, but due to the lowest level in China and the world, its accuracy has no advantage in competition with Taiwanese brands. , Launching a price war based only on low prices; when China is in low-end manufacturing to solve problems, there is a broad market, but as China’s technological progress moves towards the mid-range and high-end, it is ruthlessly eliminated and abandoned by the market. This is the inevitable result of China’s integration into global competition! There are still many gaps between China’s precision technology and foreign countries! I am a machine tool practitioner, and friends are welcome to pay attention to the articles and videos I share, and interact with me whenever I am interested! I followed a friend who left a message and asked me about the link: The Japanese machine tool myth is broken: Jingri is too bragging and rumors, to be fair to Germany, Switzerland, and Spain_Bilibili and Japan’s CNC machine tool technology in the world Is the world the most advanced and mature? And so on, as a machine tool practitioner, I would like to talk about my own views. They are just my own views, which may inevitably lead to private goods. Please understand! First of all, it must be clear that people like to see what they think is right, and they have certain cognitive limitations on things, especially as outsiders (even insiders also exist), everyone likes to use their knowledge to Explain the problems you have seen and come up with the answers you think are right. This is a philosophical proposition. There is no such thing as saying that you can jump out of this proposition! Furthermore, the links discussed are all imported machine tools. The reason why we choose imported machine tools means that imported machine tools have their options. If they can be replaced in China, there will not be a big market in China. Although we are in the wave of globalization, considering the proposition of return on investment, few people are willing to invest in imported machine tools at multiples to multiples of the cost, given that there are mature domestic suppliers; the third point is , Machine tool as a type of machine tool (in Taiwan), the domestic industry’s working machine, its development needs to be developed according to the footsteps of the head design company and the overall industry and supply chain of the country in which it is located! The head design company integrates the top-notch supply chain and constantly raises requirements to upgrade the supply chain system; China has spent more than 10 years conquering core technologies through the introduction of high-speed rail technology, while driving the overall domestic rail transit industry suppliers Upgrade; MITSUI SEIKI 2020 data. With the help of Mitsui Seiki’s 2020 data, MAZAK is located at the Global Standard (CNC) level in the middle of the pyramid. It can develop steadily at this level and has a certain degree of scalability both upward and downward. , Has a broad space for development, and is also the most profitable layer! The data provided by MITSUI SEIKI is at the top of the pyramid and at the top of the industry. It is the mother machine of many machine tool manufacturers in Japan and even the world. Its thread grinder technology is a global leader in thread grinding. , The executive industry leader; its linear guide grinder, the only global competitor is the German aba company (which has been acquired by other companies); the highest-precision level of authentic coordinate grinder, the world’s only three companies have continued to develop to the present……; The most authentic jig boring machine in the world can be compared with the Swiss DIXI, German SIP and American MOORE…The world’s top machine tools, due to the high technical threshold and low demand, a machine can be used for decades. There will be a scale effect, and it is rarely possible to enter the field of vision of ordinary enterprises and individuals…

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